Forced plot in Saw IV (also seen in III)

The scene is simple enough, and works at some level in Saw III...

We see Jeff having finished his test with Timothy Young, going down the hallway to whatever lies waiting for him at the end. By this point, he's aggravated, angry, and probably just all-around not in a good mood after everything he's been through.

He sees a light up ahead, and jumps to slam it with his hand.

Easy scene, very logical/appropriate that he might do this.

Now, let's put that into context in Saw IV...

Agent Strahm is in the building going after Rigg, thinking he's being recruited by Jigsaw (or at least wanting to find him in order to ask him what's going on.)

When all of a sudden he hears Jeff in another part of the building make a loud banging sound, and ok, maybe he thinks Rigg is in the direction of the sound...

But here's the point....Jigsaw told Agent Perez (through Billy) that Strahm would take the life of an innocent man (Jeff).

But I find it a bit too coincidental that they both happened to be in the building at the same time, and Jeff just "happened" to make a loud noise, which put Strahm off his original path.

And because of this ONE event (completely up to Jeff - Strahm had no control over it), that's what made Strahm follow and eventually kill Jeff in self-defense.

I find this to be a really forced plot hole on the part of the writers...what do you all think?

Yeah, I agree. I really don't know how Jigsaw knew that the FBI dude was going to kill Jeff.

not really, because Jigsaw / John says if you know human nature you can anticipate the possibilites. Being in law enforcement, I can tell you from experience and training that is probably how we would react.

that is a good point but with these movies you have to take it on faith that jiggy is always right---and the only ones who will make mistakes are the apprentices.----i think?

	golfbum75 wrote:
	not really, because Jigsaw / John says if you know human nature you can anticipate the possibilites. Being in law enforcement, I can tell you from experience and training that is probably how we would react.

But that's kind of the point - how can you anticipate Jeff making a noise that someone else who's in the building at the SAME TIME will then go towards the sound?

If Jeff had just walked on down the hallway, or if the light had been high enough that he wouldn't have been able to make a noise, then Strahm never would've accidentally gone after Jeff.

Are you sure he changed directions because of the sound though?

BuayaGuy wrote:

	golfbum75 wrote:
	not really, because Jigsaw / John says if you know human nature you can anticipate the possibilites. Being in law enforcement, I can tell you from experience and training that is probably how we would react.

But that's kind of the point - how can you anticipate Jeff making a noise that someone else who's in the building at the SAME TIME will then go towards the sound?

If Jeff had just walked on down the hallway, or if the light had been high enough that he wouldn't have been able to make a noise, then Strahm never would've accidentally gone after Jeff.

Jeff was known for his anger. Maybe Jigsaw knew Jeff would be ** and make some sort of distraction for Strahm. Strahm then, being the Special Agent, knows how to use a gun for defense while Jeff only experienced practicing in his sons room leading to Jeff dying to inexperience of a draw.

You are 100% correct that this is forced. I think it was added just for wow effect.
However, it is actually possible to rationalize it. I believe Rig had a key to get in. If the writers wanted to go back and re-edit the movie, they could show rig openening a door that strahm could not have gotten through, and that if strahm kept moving towards Rigg, he would eventually be forced to go towards Jeff.
Still, you're right that it's forced, but it's not a major plot hole like some movies have, because it can at least be rationalized and a possible (although not always likely) reasoning can be found.

I think it's very interesting to notice how much comes together in the last few moments of SAWs 3 and 4, and the first few of 5. Jeff is finishing his game, Amanda is finishing hers. Rigg is just arriving, strahm is just arriving. Art has recently finished his side quest. There is so much going on and the timing has to be absolutely perfect for everything. I guess SAW kinda breaks down when you look at it like this...

If you really wanna scratch your head, how did Jigsaw know that Strahm would wind up locked in the room next to his dead body? He had to put it all together himself.
Why would they bother testing Strahm. He's just a cop. But they had a tape and traps set up for him anyway. Perhaps Jill was supposed to lead Strahm to the Gideon building.

Too much thinking. I'm out. RIP Strahm

Team Hoffman